Reclaim Your Worth | MAKERS Money
MAKERS Money host Sallie Krawcheck, CEO and Co-Founder of Ellevest, shows you how to negotiate for the raise you deserve now. Guest appearance by Sally Thornton of executive recruiting firm Forshay. Produced by MAKERS and Yahoo Finance in partnership with Ellevest.
SALLIE KRAWCHECK: Money is power. And ladies, it's time to level the playing field.
Hi everyone. Welcome to Makers Money. I'm Sally Krawcheck, CEO of Ellevest, the top-rated investing platform for women. We're here in New York, we're drinking a little wine, and we're talking money. And today, ladies, let's get paid. Huge part of the gender pay gap, right? The one where we women are paid 80% of what men are for doing the same jobs and even less if you're a woman of color. Don't think it affects you? It does. Somewhere in the unwritten rules of success that have been passed down for decades, the guys learned to negotiate their salaries. And they negotiate it every time they get a job offer and every performance review. And unfortunately, for a whole bunch of different reasons, we women, we do so at significantly lower rates.
But here's some encouraging news. Women who asked for raises tend to get them. According to a study done by Ellevate network, 75% of professional women in that community who asked for a raise last year got it.
Now exactly how many of those women do you think received a salary decrease? Zero. That's right, zero. 75% got a raise and zero got a decrease. So the lesson here is ask. But how do you go about doing that? Well, I've got three steps for you. Step number one. Important. Figure out how much you're worth. What's the average salary for your job, in your industry, in your geography? The more specific you can be, the better. And you don't know? Well, sites like Comparably, GetRaised, Glassdoor, they're all good starting points.
Step number two. Set the stage for the raise with your boss. And that means having the "what does success mean for me" conversation. And it should include, if I'm successful, this is how much money I should be making. And this needs to happen well before it's time to dole out raises. As in it needs to happen this month.
Step three. You've got to come to that meeting prepared. Show up with clear ideas of what success in your job looks like. And the more you can quantify it, the more numbers you can put to it, the better. And the more this feeds into your company's success-- and pro tip, your boss's success-- the better. Agree with your boss on what those milestones look like, write them down, write them down, and then go kill it. Come review time there's not going to be a lot of room for misunderstanding.
Joining us today is Sally Thornton, founder of Forshay, an executive recruiting firm. Welcome, Sally.
SALLY THORNTON: Thank you.
SALLIE KRAWCHECK: And cheers. I'm so glad to have you join me.
SALLY THORNTON: Cheers. Thank you for having me.
SALLIE KRAWCHECK: So you've spent your career helping women live their fullest life in the workplace. What's your advice to everybody to be at their best?
SALLY THORNTON: Two things. One is actually embracing the fact that we're human. So it's, are we providing psychological safety? Are we giving people work places with curiosity, generosity, empathy? Like, these are things we actually really need to do our best work. The other thing I would say is if we can move forward professionally without taking a step backwards at home, that allows us to flourish.
SALLIE KRAWCHECK: So we want to get more women into positions of leadership. What advice would you give to women who are looking for that raise and for that promotion?
SALLY THORNTON: Explicitly go for it. But go for it with data, right? So if we have knowledge, the science actually shows we negotiate better than men. And also figure out the win-win, right? Because when we're asking for something, we want to be on the same side of the table saying, how does this benefit the company so it doesn't feel zero-sum?
SALLIE KRAWCHECK: Yeah. OK, I hate to ask this, but I have to. What are the biggest mistakes you see women make at work? I'll take a sip.
SALLY THORNTON: Yeah.
SALLIE KRAWCHECK: Because I'm sure I've made them all.
SALLY THORNTON: We all have. That's part of learning, right? I would say it's the-- it's the lack of confidence. So-- so I feel as if now we are having an awakening of, how do we stick together and how do we support each other. I think sometimes, too, we think of negotiation and women thriving as that someone else is not thriving.
SALLIE KRAWCHECK: Yup.
SALLY THORNTON: It's not true.
SALLIE KRAWCHECK: Well, and I think that's changing. It used to be there was only one seat at the table for the woman.
SALLY THORNTON: Yeah.
SALLIE KRAWCHECK: And I think, you know, the me-to moment, the time's-up moment is really changing that, where we're recognizing the more the better.
SALLY THORNTON: That's exactly right.
SALLIE KRAWCHECK: Right? Diversity is better. OK. We asked this question of everybody who joins us.
SALLY THORNTON: OK.
SALLIE KRAWCHECK: Again, you might need to take a sip of wine for this one. What is the stupidest thing you've ever done with your money?
SALLY THORNTON: Mm.
SALLIE KRAWCHECK: Big sip.
SALLY THORNTON: Yeah. OK. Gym memberships. I hate recurring expenses that are guilt ridden. So I thought by signing up for a gym, like, that would guilt me into going. It does not.
SALLIE KRAWCHECK: No.
SALLY THORNTON: No.
SALLIE KRAWCHECK: No. What's the smartest thing you've ever done with your money?
SALLY THORNTON: I started early when I moved to New York and I made $0.00, maybe a little bit more. I had to think about where every dollar went. So I actually had something that was like a Sharp calculator and I would track every dollar. It became for me a gaming mindset. How do I know where everything goes, so that I can essentially save as much as possible? And I wanted to-- I had a goal. I wanted to pay for my own wedding. And so when I had a game mindset and a goal, I could do it.
SALLIE KRAWCHECK: And you do that today?
SALLY THORNTON: Absolutely.
SALLIE KRAWCHECK: You are so great to join us here. Thank you so much.
SALLY THORNTON: Thank you.
SALLIE KRAWCHECK: All right, now my favorite part. Let's get to questions from all of you. The first one, I was just passed over for a promotion and a male colleague got it instead. His performance hasn't been nearly as good as mine. What should I do? Well, first of all, I'm sorry. That is so tough. Ugh. Now the first thing you're going to do is you're going to go in your manager's office and you're going to ask him or her for feedback. What could you have done differently to have gotten the job?
If it's that your performance needs to improve in a certain area, great, fantastic. Because now you know what to work on. On the other hand, you hear, well, you just wasn't the right fit, you're not ready for it, or you need more marketing experience, but they never give it to you, or anything having to do with gender or age, not cool. Let's not go all the way there. But at some point if we have to go all the way there, then it may be time to have a conversation with HR, or even look for another place to take your talents.
Onto our second question. I've been with my company for two years and haven't gotten a raise yet. I'm going to ask for one. What do I do in that meeting if the answer is no? Well, I would take the opportunity to go in there not with just the ask for the raise, but 37 other things that you want. And don't leave that meeting with your boss without getting a yes on one of them.
OK, like what other things? Some examples. To take a coding class, to take an executive MBA course paid for by the company, maybe ask for an overseas assignment. Notice none of these things are money but all of them can turn into money later. So they're all valuable. You should definitely also ask to have your pay re-evaluated next quarter. And honestly, if you can't get a yes to that or any of your 37 other things, that's a signal, because then it's time, my friend, to look for a new job.
Look, asking is hard. And it seems to be especially so for us women. I've been in the not-so-glamorous compensation discussion myself, the one where you're vomiting up all over yourself verbally and your neck is splotching. So I promise you, I get it. But making an ask is like anything else. It just takes practice. If it helps, start with smaller asks and work your way up to the big leagues. The truth is no one is ever going to care as much about your career as you will, so advocating for yourself is non-negotiable. We want to hear from you. Tweet to us at @makerswomen and use the hashtag #makersmoney or send your questions to me at makers.com. Thanks so much to Sally Thornton for joining us. And until next time, remember, more money, more power.
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